I have gone here before so I am not gonna go haywire on the subject. Emails are pouring on both sides (as usual) and comments are being made so here is the deal........
First let it be said I have made notice in the past, and it holds for the future, that if anything I post here on this blog goes against anyone's wishes, please let me know and I will take it down immediately. I do not wish to infringe upon anyone's rights, weather they seem ridiculous or not.
I used to get email notifications instantly when someone responded to my posts, and for some reason blogger stopped sending them. I though no one was responding to what I was posting. No big deal, I just figuredno one had anything to say. Maybe I turned something off somewhere, I do not know, but for whatever reason, they are not going to my email.
On a whim I happened to go into blogger "dashboard" and found some 30 odd comments that needed moderation. Among them 2 requesting I remove an album I posted. One was a decent request to remove the said album, the second, a more venomous note with an implied warning or threat (perception in the eye of the beholder, may or may not be true).
Now, that being said, I have had folks ask that I remove albums before, and usually I get a decent email from either a band member or an associate of the band with a request to remove said item(s). I have always compiled as soon as humanly possible to these requests and never made a big deal about it, because it is the band's music and if they don't want people grabbing it to check out that is their business. I am at least of average intelligence and I knew the risks when I went into to blogging. I try my best to only post out of print stuff, and yes I know out of print doesn't mean it has no copyright. And I am very familiar with all the good work one Salvador Bono did to make those copyrights laws absolutely absurd.
But this has gotten way out of control. After my explanation of the reason why I did not comply to this person's request to remove said files immediately, that seems not to be good enough. Someone feels I need a lesson of facts I already know, and since they are being sent anonymously I cannot tell if these are associated with the person sending the original request to remove said files, if some rouge holier than thou is back in business, or what the hell is going on. Whatever it is, the file is gone forever, the band will never ever be mentioned in this blog again, and it is done and over with on my end. I have apologized three times now, and I will apologize no more. I fucked up, get over it. Gonna try to get money outta me? Get in line, my friend!
As far as a record label suing me goes---let me fill you in on my sordid details in case you haven't already heard me complaining in the past.
I am a 40 year old guy who works at a gas station. A clerk for christsakes. I am below poverty level's poverty level and I owe everyone and their brother at least a dollar. I couldn't borrow a quarter with 2 as collateral. My next three paychecks are spent already, friends! I ain't got nothing but an ever shrinking record collection that is slowly ending up at record stores/on ebay and this here computer (an eight year old Dell Dimension desktop) that is the one guilty pleasure I get out of life. And my internet gets shut off from time to time, they are one of the many that have to wait from time to time too. My back is completely fucked up, but I can't afford to take off work to go to the doctor, I support two kids that live with me and I drive a 1995 lawnmower on wheels with 123,000 miles on it . When it idles you could make milkshakes on the dashboard.
Yep--a perfect target for the RIAA. Come get me. As I said in my response to whoever in the comments--3 hots and cot ain't lookin' too fuckin' bad right now.
Now, please, this is over on my end. And if what I have done (complied with your request) isn't good enough for you, I am at a loss. And if this is some rouge piggy-backing you, then also know that will stop too, because any further comments pertaining to this will be deleted.
Again, longwinded as usual, I hope I made my point. I am still going to try to maintain this blog, but as it's summer and I am trying to get a second job to cover the first one, posts may be sporatic. But it ain't gonna be a fucking soap opera. I already live one. This is supposed to be my escape from that.
TT-
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26 comments:
O - M - G ! Saucerful mono was up? Snowball's chance ya could reup? Thank ye.
I'm enthralled with the mono Piper's superiority to the stero mix (http://mygeneration60s.blogspot.com/2007/03/pink-floyd-piper-at-gates-of-dawn-mono.html) and have long been looking forward to hearing the mono 2d LP to see if it meets the same standard.
This would really make my century, thanks.
- stupiddle
gee it guess it was artful dodger than duh!keep up the cool posts mr traveller you rock dude!
I'll see if Syd's estate will allow me to repost that mono Saucer. Sorry for the smart-assed tone, but I am a bit miffed right now.
Hey, mate, you're doing a great job, and to hell with the fuckers that think the folks are eager to shell out the hard-earned dough on the music they've never heard (of)!
DME
http://dmme.net
Hey time traveller, thanks for the bloody fine work and your righteous stance. You're straight up and there's a great big lack of that these days.
Slap a donate button on your blog (or did I missed it?) and I'll be the first to click on it.
Got a vinyl rip of Target's 2nd LP "Captured" you can post? Regardless, thanks for the tunes and the time and energy you put into this thing.
Regards
Smart-assed beats bland every time, mate - no worries from this quarter! Hang in there, bud.
-stupiddle
Yeah, keep up the good work. As a musician in an out-of-print band I am in fact planning to upload some of our stuff to blogs (including the new LP)... that's because it's about the music and the fans, and it's more important that people hear the good work we did. Especially since so many fans are in the financial position you (and I) are...
Well said!! Hope you can continue with the blog and good luck finding
this second job!
Marc
Just to say Thanks.
Greetings from sarf west London :O)
Keep up the good work. I enjoy reading and occasionally listening to your posts.
Short-sighted "artists" who don't realize the value of publicity? Oh well...maybe someday they will get off their tired old behinds, spend several thousand dollars to reissue their 30 year old work, and reap all the benefits of selling 120 copies.
Hey Mate.
Don't be discouraged. You have one of the best blogs on the web and there are a lot of us who love you.
Keep up the good work and remember, the last asshole isn't born yet.
The Swede.
fantastic explanation good job if the bands dont wanna be herd then its there loss nobody will buy there music simple as that dont letem disgurage yu time traveller theres lotsa ppl out here that preshate yur efert so keep on blogin an ENJOY :-)
That is one of the best straight to the point editorials I have read in many years. You have every right to be miffed and may things go better in the future. Appreciate you time and effort for this blog. Thanks for the music and memories look forward to the future posts.
I allowed every comment to be posted to this blog entry, but some have disaapeared. Did they somehow fail to post a reply to this comment? I don't know but I went back 3 blog entries and they are not showing.
But to answer them. I do not recall any cease and desist on the previous album I posted by "the band". Had I gotten one I would never have posted the other album. I am not an idiot. The "other album" was deleted at a time when a bunch of stuff was being deleted from a bunch of blogs, but I never received a request to remove it from anyone. Believe me, I know which bands do not want their stuff posted. And Starz is one of them. Personally no skin of my back. And Phil Seymour!?!?!? Please. At least come up with a better example than that. Did an album he ever put out crack the top 200? Do more than a handfull of people know of Phil? If they do, do they care? He is a cult figure at best, and all the publicity in the world will not garner Phil Seymour any more or less sales than he ever got at his peak.
Let me lay it out for you....if your tunes are on a blog and someone really likes them, yes they are going to buy your stuff, or better yet, come see you live where you'll actually see some money from it. If they buy your stuff and think you suck ass, then they are going to resent you for it. Ahh, but you made your 1.52 from it. So fooey on them right?
My local library has a copy of one of your albums. I bet it's been borrowed 80-90 times (why? because people WILL take chances on stuff when it's available for FREE, if the library charged money to borrow it, I bet it would be untouched). Did you get anything from that? Did Columbia records get anything other than the original sale? Wanna take a stab at how many MP3 rips came from that one sale? I'm sure more than once, probably more like 15-20. I legitamately bought my copy--used of course in the .99 bin at my local record store. Nobody wanted it when it was 8.99, 6.99, 5.99, 3.99 or 1.99. But you got that original sale right? So it's all peachy.
Come on, don't try to make the blogs the bad guys. We aren't the only source for this stuff, and if it doesn't get around one way---it will another. Face the facts, the internet moves a step ahead of anything the RIAA and mjaor labels can come up with. Remember the 2 million plus RCA spent to produce a "non-rippable" CD. And a guy on the net cracked the code in about 4.2 minutes? Why doesn't the RIAA and the majors hire some GOOD computer techies instead of hiring lawyers to sue their potential customers?
Ah, but I'm making too much sense here aren't I? And it's not going to change your mind that I'm just an evil people taking money out of your wallet. So I think I'll just shut the fuck up. And I'll meet Cary Sherman and his RIAA in hell. And I'll going to kick him square in the balls. And then I'm going to laugh my own balls off.
Absolutely one of the BEST BLOGS!!!
Please persevere. There are A**holes everywhere on the planet. Just try to ignore them. Again,
please keep up the excellent work.
Thank you so much for your time and effort. It is greatly appreciated by all!!!
Bigt
And hey kingpossum, there is in fact a donate button at the bottom of my blog--if you'd like to drop a dime on me, I'd be most appreciative!
And a comment I'd like to mention that I forgot--if the person who wrote the long reply that is seamingly lost somewhere---is still reading. I did make note to the fact that it might not have been you making the vicious threats about deleting your album. Go re-read the post. I haven't touched it. I said it might be a blog menace jumping in on the oppurtunity. It happens. Dude, I ain't tryin' to make you (or your band)look like (a) bad guy(s). I am stating the facts, and how they make you look is a reflection on how YOU make you look. If you care to repost your comments on this blog entry, I will gladly publish them as you should get your chance to be heard.
I will not censor anyone except threats and/or senseless comments. That's why moderation had to be enabled in the first place.
keep rocking dude stick it to the man ,can i request one lp im having a bitch of a time to find sparks-introducing sparks from 1977 i hear it not in print so no one should bitch if its posted on a blog site somehwere.
Sorry to hear about all of the failed rock stars taking their frustrations about not making it on you.
Take heart that there are some mature musicians out there who have made peace with their youthful attempts at stardom and now just want people to hear their music.
Keep up the good work and hope things go better for you in the future.
Well written notes too: you should consider doing some freelance writing.
I just discovered this blog a few days ago, but it's absolutely fantastic. Don't let a few assholes discourage you (that's what happened to another blog that I used to frequent). This place has many gems that I'm looking forward to listening to. Thanks a heap.
Hey time traveller, just to let you know that you're probably not the only one harrassed, look what i found on another blog: "Since you don't have an area for general comments and the collective music sharing blogs don't have a common "do not post items by this artist" like the Bit-torrents do here's a request authorized by the band Artful Dodger (Columbia Records 1975-1980/Agora Records 1980) on their behalf.
The band is currently negotiating a reissue deal. SONYBMG has renewed the rights to their material. Please do not post any of the four commercial releases by Artful Dodger. This includes the self-titled debut (1975), "Honor Among Thieves" (1976), "Babes On Broadway" (1977) and "Rave On". As included are any live, demo or solo projects by the band members.
If someone is interested in the band, you are welcome to direct then to the band's official YOUTUBE channel or site.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Artful Dodger".
I say don't let agents of oppression stand in your way. You got a wonderful blog and keep up the excellent work.
WORD!
Excellent post.
Keep on, one of the best blogs out there. If not the best.
Devoted people like you keep life in those once great musical and historical happenings, and it would be a shame to let such vaults of treasures go to waste. Nobody lives forever, and frankly, from a sales point of view, most are 'dead' for all future, anyway.
I'm not 'in your league'of blogging in any way, but I'll do the same. Keep on with my tribute to music I've appreciated at moments in life, and still do. Music that I find so valuable on many levels, that I think it's a crime not telling the world about it. Not the opposite. It's shrines of valuable memories from a tiny bit of the world's history of time.
In fact, I don't know if most bands or artists that i blog or will blog, are still alive. But if they are, and don't like what I do, they can contact me. And I will remove them, and pretend they are dead anyway. Easy.
Another fact, actions like that only shows that they really were in it for the money. Not the fans. Not to be heard. Not to be appreciated. Lets keep it that way.
One idea, why not make a list of all those bands/artists, so we know who they are. And stop supporting them the free & idealistic way you, me, and all others bloggers do? They don't deserve our support.
That is, if they're not re-releasing their stuff, and dreaming of a new youth, stardom & truckloads of money comin' in... if so, why not appreciate the facts that there's people out there, marketing & keeping your memory alive, for such a 'come back'... maybe doin' it possible at all. I don't get it. Well... that fits on most of what's happening in this world.
Anyway, please don't stop!
Thanks
MY MAN I DO SYMPATHIZE YOU AND I DO AGREE WITH THE OTHERS THAT YOUR RESPONSE TO THE MATTER IS BRAVE. WHEN THE CD’s FIRST GOT INTRODUCED TO THE PUBLIC THE RECORD COMPANIES INSTEAD OF SELLING THEM CHEAPER THAN THE LP’s THEY WANTED TO MAKE MORE AND MORE MONEY OUT OF US, SO IS THEIR FAULT THAT PEOPLE STARTED MAKING COPIES AND SELLING THEM. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT LOOSING MONEY ARE THE RECORD COMPANIES AND NOT THE ACTUAL GROUPS (THEY ARE LOOSING PENNIES).JUDGING BY YOUR TASTE IN MUSIC EVERYBODY CAN TELL THAT YOU ARE A NICE GUY THAT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY NOT AS MUCH AS THE A***OLES WORKING BEHIND THOSE SACRED COMPANIES ANYWAY. THE WORD IS CHANGING!!! THE MUSIC REACHED ITS PEAK IN THE 60s AND 70s!!!
THE BLOGSHEAR NEEDS YOU. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
YOU ARE AN INFLUENCE TO ALL OF US.
GOD BLESS YOU
WITH RESPECT
HIPPY-DJKIT
First off, it appears that you edited or removed some of the "nastier" posts against Artful Dodger. That's appreciated.
And yes, I'd personally like this matter to be closed.
Second, I'd like to make one point, which won't be popular around here, but maybe you'll understand it. To Artful Dodger and protecting their rights, it's not about money, it's about respect.
If it was about money, they could have came back to Cleveland, Ohio every year after things fell apart following "Rave On". If you're interested in knowing what happened you can join the official site (it's free) and read about it in the Bravenet Archives. The Agora literally begged the band for years to do reunion shows, and finally in 1991, for an Agora anniversary event, they finally agreed to do a show. Guess what, it sold out immediately. The Agora asked if the band would do a second show, they did the next night. Anyone who is familar with the band knows that part of their sound is Bill's raspy voice. Well, from 1981 to 1991 Bill did not sing professionally. So, you can imagine after performing almost 3 hours from the first show - his throat was raw (As Def Leppard's vocalist pointed out in the liner notes for "Stay With Me", he gained a new level of respect for Rod Stewart's abilitly to "throat sing". Anyway, the band could have easily cancelled the second show (which was the next night) and and drove 8 hours back to Virginia - end of story. Nope, Bill got back up on stage and performed the same set, not cutting a song or shortening the set. So yes, it's about the fans!
They put together some material at a studio and kicked around making a go at it, but it wasn't in the cards. Not because of money or lack of fans, but at this point they all had families and kids. Touring would have destroyed being there while their kids were growing up.
Fast forward about to 2001 to 2005. "Randy's Pop Rodeo" posts an extremely well written review of the band and their discography which gets the attention of one "Steve Cooper" who kindly posts that he's pleased to have the blog's words as the final page to the Artful Dodger scrapbook. Wow, these guys are still around!!!!
A few diehard fans start a Yahoo group which morphs into an actual web site for the band. We joke that for Christmas 2005, we'd like to see Artful Dodger hit the stage "one last time"! Well, Gary Cox and Gary Herrewig head to Bill's business and ask if he would be willing to give it a shot. "Guys, I haven't sung in years"! They tell him about the site and all the fans and he finally agrees to a rehearsal. If it's bad, we scrap the idea. Well, in Bill's own words, it was bad. But like a kid trying to ride without training wheels, he kept getting back up and trying. Okay, we'll do a show! They asked at the site, what songs people would want to hear at the show. Many requests for "It's A Lie", a song they never did live back in the day. The performed it. In fact, the only songs they didn't perform were requests from "Babes On Broadway". Why? Because of the key that most of those songs are sung in. But they did give it a shot in rehearsal (I heard the result was "SCARY"). So, the night of the show, December 31, 2005 (New Year's Eve), the band is nervous (it's been about 25 years). The band agrees to let a local classic rock radio station broadcast the show so that those who can't attend can hear them. They could have easily booked another show for money. They sit and eat with fans before the show. After the show, they meet and talk with every fan they possibly can (for several hours). Then they drive 8 hours back to their home state. Wow, what an experience for the fans and the band. A surprise too, Hank (Agora Records) and Artful Dodger put together a CD which is "Rave On" plus several live songs from 1976 which is given as a gift to all the people who attend the show. Well, it wasn't more than 2 days later that someone taped the show, ripped it on a CDR and posted it on EBAY for money. Also, the Bit Torrents picked up on it and posted it for download. In my opinion, what a way to thank the band.
So, we ask Hank LaConti and the band if we could post the audio from the show on the website to help stop illegal copies being distributed. They allow it.
Fans at the site want to buy the "Rave On" CD from the show, and the Agora agrees to make those available as a freebie if you order a tshirt from the show (the Agora even picked up shipping costs).
Would you believe we still had to stop illegal copies of "Rave On" and the NYE show being sold on EBAY even though people could come to the site and hear it for free!
Fast forward to spring 2006, Hank LaConti asks if the band if they would do another show, and they do. Ticket prices are lowered to help make the show accessible to more fans because the NYE show was somewhat expensive (the price included dinner, a CD, party favors and a few other extras) and some fans couldn't afford it.
Again they perform to a full Agora for a couple of hours.
Fans still want more, membership (free) at the site explodes. Fans want more. They agree to do a show a the "Taste Of Cleveland" event and tickets are only $7. A different band wants to cover "Who In The World" on their next release. He lets the band know that he's coming up from Florida to see them at "Taste Of Cleveland". Would you ARTFUL DODGER surprised him by calling him up on stage to perform the song live! The guy is floored!
Fans still want more! Meanwhile, there are those people trying to profit on EBAY by selling CDRs of the band's material.
Some people mention YOUTUBE. Okay, I know a little about computers and do some research. I think I can do this, and the biggest benefit is that fans can hear and see Artful Dodger there without going to the site. The Agora and the band members give it a thumbs-up! Now, audio is not a problem, but what about video. I through together a pretty bad slide show for "Who In The World" that was recorded at "Taste Of Cleveland". Gary Cox (who sang the song with Symon), asks me to pull it because he's not happy with his singing. As soon as it's gone, I get flooded with messages on YOUTUBE that they want it back up. So I change the audio to "Things I'd Like To Do Again" and repost. I'm embarrassed as heck because I think the video is crap. People want more! Gary Cox sends me a video from a 1980 show (he wasn't even in the band at that time). Can I use it? Thumbs up from Hank and the Band. I shot some video from the April show, can I use it? Yep!
Fans start tearing through their "attic boxes" and other videos are sent in to the site. At any time, the band could have dubbed those over to DVD and sold tem for money. Nope, go ahead an post them on YOUTUBE. I know darn well that people have figured out how to pull clips and audio from YOUTUBE. I can't understand why, when they can watch it there anytime, but they do. Would you believe people tried selling it on EBAY!
I DON'T GET IT! It's all up there for free!!! And watching the videos at YOUTUBE helps boost channel stats which may help get the band some notice by a reissue label. Surprisingly to some people here, the band doesn't think fan's should have to pay hundreds of dollars for a used copy of the 1997 Sony reissues.
So now there's almost 50 AD videos up on YOUTUBE, site membership is almost up to 1,000. A few independent labels are interested, SONYBMG renews their rights on the material. Sounds great doesn't it?
Then the blogs start posting the albums. First "Lost In Time" post the debut in May 2007. An official request and they quickly responds by pulling it down. Other bloggers start cursing the band on the blog, poking fun and throwing names at them. I'm hoping that out of respect, that bog pulls the entire blog section down - THANK YOU!
A couple of days later, another blog posts the second album. An official request to remove it is greeted with a "F### YOU" and other nasty remarks. The file sharing host removes the file. It's reuploaded again. Blogs tell the blog host to change the file name so it can't be found. The blog also posts that he'll remove any material if requested, but doesn't comply. And not only to Dodger, but also STARZ, CHEAP TRICK, KISS and several others.
I will say that that is not how every blog responds - some are professional about it, and I hope that that blog's actions are the exception.
So I try to be proactive and start searching for requests of AD's material. I notice a few blogs and send a request to not post the material. One request was sent to you on June 8th, 2007. Unknown to you or us, you didn't get that request, but on June 18th, 2007 the debut is posted and Honor Among Thieves is next as soon as you find it. I'll stop here because everyone who has read this knows what happened next! I hate reruns too!
LET'S JUST MOVE ON NOW
You made a mistake, you've apologized, the issue should be dead!
If you can on your blog, and all you other blogs out there, please refrain from posting Artful Dodger's material (commercial albums, live, demo or solo material). Please direct requests
to visit the YOUTUBE channel.
I also politely ask that those visiting the YOUTUBE channel refrain from posting nasty comments directed at the band about this whole issue. They will be deleted. I'll gladly post positive and negative comments about the videos or songs. Heck, I'm an amateur at these videos. But if the attacks continues, I'll have to pull the channel down, which is a shame since almost 50,000 viewers seen to like it.
They band appreciates being remembered after all these years. Steve Cooper is excited that "Randy's Pop Rodeo" wasn't the final page. Friendships have been reignited. And yes, it's all about the fans and not money.
Dang, I'd be happy as a "pig in mud" if everyone that wanted to hear their music would go to YOUTUBE, post a comment, even a request! I'll see what I can do!
Just don't ask my to post or send an AD album, I can't and won't do that. Hopefully that can be respected.
I don't know how to properly word this, but here's a shot. To understand why the whole rights thing is important to musicians might be described as follows.
While you can stop someone from taking something from you, asking first takes some the sting out of it.
Suggestion: Why don't the MP3 blogs start a centralized "Do Not Post Music By This Artist" blog like the Bit-Torrents? It might help reduce the number of flare ups like this one that snowballed out of control.
Not to start anything, but I saw a comment about musicians not recognizing their music is posted on these blogs. Also, the opposing position. All I'll say is this. Most of the musicians whose music is on these blogs are in their 50's or older. I have communications with many bands. Not a one knew what a Winrar archive file was, or how to play it. I do know that you can create self-extracting archives and only add a small number of bytes to the file size. Yet the blogs choose not to do that for whatever reason. The blogs also don't advertise what Winrar is or where to get it. And how about those passwords on the archive that some blogs use. These are musicians, not computer people. And if you survey them, most probably own Apple computers.
i have to thank you for all the wonderful things you post & tell you how much i enjoy this blog.
-L
Aw man all I wanted was ya to remove was the big richard "we screwed ya-The Bush years" Lp It crimped our re-election campaign hehe
Great stuff thanx for the beautiful music.
I'm intrested in Fraternity of man, is a repost possible or am i late to the party?
thanx again
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